Newbie DK question

[rokku]

Hi all :)

Ok, am levelling up my new DK and have him just over 60 (so just arrived in Hellfire). Obviously the DK enters the main worlds with a full set of blue armor etc, however I've been receiving drops in quests, etc, of greens with better armor stats. Should I just keep wearing these blues until I can get better blue pieces, or should I swap them out for the greens?

I don't know if the colour means anything other than the pieces being rarer?

[cabby]

For now use whichever gear gives you the most benefit and ignore the color.

[koshea69]

Yes, people who were in raiding epics started trading out for green gear when they hit outlands. The color just means it's a better version of a lower level item. You generally want to get the highest item levels you can before worrying about if a green is better than a blue or not.

[rokku]

Ok, thanks both. The armor doesn't look as cool as the DK stuff, so I was worried about being mismatched, but I guess at this level I should worry mostly about the stats, aye?

Thanks again :)

[urugnek]

When you mouse over the item you loot, there should be an info-drop-down-thing that tells you about the stats. On my screen it tells me if I will increase or decrease my armor, agility, attack power etc... .

just a tip, in case you did not know :-)

Kill'em all!!!

-Uru-

[rokku]

Yes have seen that before :) So really the colour of an item has no bearing on its effectiveness at all, right? I might just look a little mismatched? :)

[Asgari]

The color is basically, and a bit simplified, just an indicator as to how good it is at the level you get it. After a few levels, a green item will be better than the blue item you got 5-10 levels back. Unless the item is part of a "set", and you have several of the parts in said "set", being mismatched doesn't matter. If you have a set, you'll have to take the set bonuses into account :)

If it's just a slight upgrade, the fashion sensible people might decide to keep the good looking equipment, hehehe. I know my wife sometimes does ;)

[Werderx]

Outland gear focuses on Stamina where WotLK gear (including DK newbie area) will focus more on Strength. Strength is the DKs bread and butter in terms of getting the most out of a stat.

I have taken two DKs through Outlands, the first one i traded armor as i saw it gave better stam, and the second i tried to stick with strength. By far the second run through was much much harder with the decrease in stam/armor.

So in short, while in outlands ignore strength because it wasn't a focus and go with what gives more stam. (and yes, you are going to look stupid throughout your Outlands experience)
As soon as you hit Northrend you will start seeing lots of strength on stuff and then start looking for a balance. When you hit 80, only look at getting more strength if you are going to be DPS. Hope this helps.

[rokku]

That helps a great deal - thanks!!

[Kamchak]

The gear you get as a new DK is good, but I will agree to change out your gear for better stats.
Your focus is on rank (shoulder armor 121 vs shoulder armor 152) and on stats given. You want better ranking status, of course, but you also need to focus on strength and stamina stats.
My advise, if you get a drop item that will increase your armor rank a few points, but will remove a strength or stamina for, say, spirit... I pass on that item.
Also, if you want to know how well you are performing, get the addon recount and set it to DPS reporting. The gear you have on will help you in your DPS stats. For example... you can have an epic weapon equiped with minimal strength / stamina stats. Your DPS will be considerably lower with that weapon than if you had better strength / stamina stats. You have the capability to weild that weapon, but not the power to use it effectivly.
The only problem I came up to with the green vs blue was the repairs. Greens take more damage than blues. But you go to towns enough to get repaired, so that wasn't too much a problem.
Also keep this in mind... the cost of repairs increases with the color/quality of said gear; or epic > rare > uncommon. My repair costs were 4g xxs xxc and are now pushing into 30g - 80g. So getting to lvl 80 matters in your ability to get gold to pay for these repairs. Epic gear for a lvl 60 is a bad idea, imo. All you could afford then would be repair costs LOL.
Worry about gear color when you hit 80 and can run heroics. There are lots of things to do after 80 to get amazing quality stuff.
Hope this helps out a bit.

[Werderx]

To correct the post above, the cost of your repair bill does not come from the fact that it is green/blue/purple. It comes from the "item level" (ilvl) of that piece of gear (and obviously how much dmg it has received).

You could have a ilvl 60 purple and it would cost far less to repair than a ilvl 173 green.

Also, armor is the last stat you should be concerned with. It is going to come naturally as a plate wearer... just stick with stamina until you get to Northrend. And don't get anything with stats that do you no good... such as intelligence, spirit, mp5, etc... that is just silly. ;)

[Kamchak]

Agreed with slight correction.

However, rolling blues on the DK then changing out for greens increased the number of times I had to visit the repair NPC, ergo, my statement was correct.

[rokku]

Thanks both, that's immensely helpful info :)

I added the recount add-on, since I've never tracked DPS before I'm a little confused. I assume the second number of the three (I'm seeing: 976 (172.7, 72.8%)) is the DPS and not the first? It went up to 300-ish at its highest. Is this normal for a lvl 60 DK? Or should I not worry too much about it, and instead just continue levelling?

Thanks again! :)

[Kamchak]

Right-click the white words in the red portion of the box that says 'Damage' and change that to DPS. This will tell you what your DPS number is, and the amount of damage you are doing, if reset durring a dungeon run.
I also created two macros to use with this;
/recount show
and
/recount reset
When you accept going into a group or get sent to a dungeon it will ask you if you want to reset recount anyway, but if you get an additional player after one drops out, resetting puts them into the report.
if your DPS rocks, you can hit the buggle looking icon and select 'guild' to post your results for all to envy.
If your DPS sucks, tell them you hit reset to fast... oops (LOL).

[Kamchak]

One more thing about 80 DK's...

The talent setup from Zygor is outstanding for leveling, as it provides you with healing attributes from the blood spec... however....

Now that you are an 80, I strongly recomend respecing to unholy.
My DPS increased 1000 by changing to dual wield weapons and the other attributes given under the unholy talent tree.
I got this from elitistjerks.com searching DK DPS.

The line-up of spells they give, however, I do not use. I use what they suggest to place in the hotbar, but the use of runes is innefficient imo.

Take that lineup and go to the dummy trainer in the pit (unworthy apponent quest in DK starter area, by the rune forges) and work on your line-up.

Id post mine, but I cant log into WoW while at work LOL.

[Werderx]

To Rokku - (I'm seeing: 976 (172.7, 72.8%))

the 976 is your overall dmg done
the 172 is your DPS
the 72.8% is the percent of that fight killed by you

No - you shouldn't worry about this number until you get to the high 70s - 80.
Yes - 172 DPS is low for lvl 60
If you are blood spec as the guide suggests, your rotation should be:

PS, IT, DS, HS, HS, HoW, DC, DS, HS 6 times, Rune Dump. whatever you are killing should be dead by then, if not, repeat. Don't forget to use your dancing rune weapon often since it has a 1minute cooldown.

To KamChak - if you want to raise your DPS even more, you will switch from DW-unholy to DW-Frost... or 2H Unholy.. which are the top Mathematical DPS specs.. which i'm sure you have read during your digging around in elitistjerks. ;)

[Kamchak]

To KamChak[/B] - if you want to raise your DPS even more, you will switch from DW-unholy to DW-Frost... or 2H Unholy.. which are the top Mathematical DPS specs.. which i'm sure you have read during your digging around in elitistjerks. ;)

Hahah.... I did spec dual wield, and thought I placed that in my post.

Either way, good addition.

I chose frost spec in dual talent to use as tanking as the AoEs seem to be pretty brutal, not to mention quite fun to use. With tanking I use my 2H mace.

Im interested in your thoughts about this.

[rokku]

Thanks -- I am Unholy as I read that had better DPS, but perhaps I'm doing it wrong :) I might respec to Blood per the guide until I get to endgame.

[rokku]

Ok, respec'd as Blood using the inbuilt build, and my average DPS is around 300-350 now. Is that ok for a lvl 60 or still low?

Thanks again for your help :)

[Kamchak]

Ok, respec'd as Blood using the inbuilt build, and my average DPS is around 300-350 now. Is that ok for a lvl 60 or still low?

Thanks again for your help :)

it isnt bad for your lvl. There is better, of course; but dont fret it.

My advise is to stick with the blood build (you're gonna need it for last 20 lvls) and start to que up for randoms. When you do randoms at first, offer that you are new to the dungeons, if in fact you are. They may still be harsh, but it will be far worse if they think you know what you're doing.

You will do dungeons to get drops. Again, you want to get gear that will help your stats, so look for Strength and Stamina increases along with armor value increases.

Also, find some 80's that are willing to help you with the Argent Tournament when you are able, as soon as you are able. There is a two hand mace that I highly recommend for you, until you hit 80 and respec with dual hand weapon talent.

Starting at lvl 70 (I think) you can start to que up for PvP dailies. not sure if you can start Wintergrasp then, but it is worth checking out. Hit the 'H' on your keyboard and go to battleground tab. It will list what you are qualified to participate in. The earlier you start this, the more shards and honor you will have when you hit 80. This buys you T9 or T10 gear, which will increase your stats tremendously.

If you are not in a good guild, find one. The knowledge alone is worth joining. make sure there is a good mix of people your level, but also enough 80s to help you when you need it.

[Werderx]

Hahah.... I did spec dual wield, and thought I placed that in my post.

Either way, good addition.

I chose frost spec in dual talent to use as tanking as the AoEs seem to be pretty brutal, not to mention quite fun to use. With tanking I use my 2H mace.

Im interested in your thoughts about this.

Frost and Blood spec are the way to go for tanking end game in 3.3. Unholy tanking is still viable for running stuff pre-ICC, but your healers don't typically like it due to the spiky damage you take. For my tank set I prefer Frost because that means i can focus on keeping agro and rotating my mitigate cooldowns. Blood requires you to work in tandem with your healers to heal yourself (kind of). Frost also gives three AoE abilities to get the agro (Howling blast, death and decay, and Blood Boil).
So in short, ultimately it depends on what you are more comfortable with, but I think frost is definitely a good way to go for a tank spec (as of 3.3).

To go back to the 2 handed DPS conversation.
Again, it goes back to what best fits your play style, but:

Duel wielding is a viable DPS spec, however to get the most out of it you will need to get the talent point Threat of Thassarian (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=66192). In patch 3.2 Unholy duel wielding was a viable DPS spec but with the changes in 3.3, Frost duel wielding is far superior in terms of the math.

[rokku]

Thanks again everyone for your input; really appreciate it.


it isnt bad for your lvl. There is better, of course; but dont fret it.

Is there a ballpark figure I should be aiming for, for my DPS? ~lvl 65 now, and I think I'm in the 400s or so.

I keep seeing DPS scores in the thousands, and I'm not sure if these are actual DPS or if people are reporting the amount of damage they're doing in an entire fight rather than per second...

Is there a resource anywhere of target DPS for each class, or is it really a matter of waiting until someone in a PUG telling you your DPS sucks? :D

[Werderx]

At the top of your recount it will say "Damage done", or "DPS", or something else. There will be a notepad looking icon that if you click you can select to view overall stats, or current fight, or select a previous fight.

I keep mine on "Damage Done" with it looking at the "current fight".

As i had pointed out in a previous post, beside your name will be a large number... this is the total damage. Next to it in ( ) will be your DPS. The next number is a % of the total dmg you did in comparison to everyone else.

Lets assume that this is your highest level character so that they are not a twink with heirlooms and such. Your DPS should be 650 to 1000 dmg per second at lvl 65... Here's the thing. I assume that you are going by the talent guide so your DPS will be suppressed a bit.

If you could link me your armory and what your single/multiple target rotation is then i could help a little more.

[rokku]

Thanks -- I have mine just reporting DPS, and current fight.

Here's my armory link; it says I'm lvl 63 but I thought I was higher (that's my dodgy memory for you!) http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ghostlands&cn=Reliq

I will update later tonight with my spell rotation if diff from the following, but it's basically PS, IT, DS, HS, HS, DC, DS, HS as suggested earlier in the thread (I don't have HoW yet I don't think).

[Werderx]

Your spec looks good for the most part.. except for one major thing. You need to put a point in "Dancing Rune Weapon". This is a major DPS factor in the blood tree. Since you are leveling this toon with quests and what not, it is good that you have points in Rune tap/imp Rune Tap.

I do not agree with Zygor's talent guide for DKs. They invest way to many points into defensive talents when they are not needed for world mobs which are not elite.

I wouldn't invest in the frost tree with the blood tree as your primary. I would dig into the unholy tree because it helps balance out your AE DPS with your single target DPS.

Your dancing rune weapon has a 1 minute cooldown, which means you should be poping it anytime you can... on that note, i suggest you make sure there are 3+ mobs when you do pop it. You are going to see your DPS jump way up with this talent. The idea with Rune weapon is to hit it when it is most beneficial. I usually hit it right before i hit pest because the pet will spread my diseases around for a second time (putting them on all the mobs x2). After that you want to hit Heart Strike as much as possible until he goes away.

Your glyphs look fine as well. I would add in Glyph of Death Strike (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43827). Your other major glyph can be a few different things. Since you are leveling, I would stick Glyph of Death Grip (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43541), which is excelent for solo questing. It allows you to stand in one spot and pull everything to you (making lvling faster)... or Glyph of Rune Tap (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43825). This glyph will make you a utility to your group and also heal you for an additional 10%... really your call, both great glyphs for leveling.

Here is a decent build that will give you optimal healing for your solo action and still give decent DPS for 5 mans. Blood Spec until lvl 67 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jfcMqIcIsfMfost:LVZVm)
PS. You get Horn Of Winter at lvl 65.

[rokku]

Great thanks -- I've respec'd again, and things are going a bit nicer now. I'm still getting 300-400 dps, but it's not like I'm even at risk of getting below 90% HP even with multiple mobs (I'm only in Zangamarsh though).

It's all constant tweaking I guess :)

[Werderx]

You did make sure and get Dancing Rune Weapon before you ran out of talent points, right?

[rokku]

I did indeed :)